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Guild of Copy Editors 2023 Annual Report Our 2023 Annual Report is now ready for review. Highlights: Introduction Membership news, obituary and election results Summary of Drives, Blitzes and the Requests page Closing words – Your Guild coordinators: Dhtwiki, Miniapolis and Wracking. To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list.

News and updates for administrators from the past month (August 2024).

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Guideline and policy news

• Following an RfC, there is a new criterion for speedy deletion: C4, which applies to unused maintenance categories, such as empty dated maintenance categories for dates in the past.
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Arbitration

• Following a motion, remedies 5.1 and 5.2 of World War II and the history of Jews in Poland (the topic and interaction bans on My very best wishes, respectively) were repealed.
• Remedy 3C of the German war effort case ("Cinderella157 German history topic ban") was suspended for a period of six months.
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As in your recent edits. Per WP:ARCHIVENOTDELETE, aren't article talk pages supposed to be archived not blanked? - Shearonink (talk) 15:57, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They are absolutely supposed to be archived. I have begun undoing your edits. Please stop them immediately, or you will be reported for disruptive editing. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 16:12, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is such a huge issue and it looks like there are many, maybe even hundreds of these problematic edits to undo, these blankings might need a wholesale admin action. Shearonink (talk) 16:36, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Shearonink I am about to file a report to do just that. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 16:48, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Shearonik: @QuietHere: First of all WP:AIV is not the appropriate venue to solve an issue like this. Shearonink asked me to explain my edits but neither of you gave me the chance to do so and decided I needed an immediate block. I need more than just one hour to respond; I wasn't online at the time, and blocking doesn't solve anything if I'm not actively editing and ignoring your inquiry. Shearonink said at AIV, "I skimmed their past edits and they didn't always do this, sometimes in the past they did move outdated article talk page posts to Archives." -- you seem to believe that I'm just blanking talk pages en masse regardless of who created the sections or what purpose they serve? The only sections I've removed are posts made by InternetArchiveBot, and I'm not removing all of them. Both of you also seem to be assuming that WP:ARCHIVENOTDELETE is a policy that must be followed almost without exception, while I don't believe that I am violating ARCHIVENOTDELETE. Removing the InternetArchiveBot talk page sections is also not the only change to talk pages that I'm making. I am trying to find some links for a longer explanation. Nythar (💬-🍀) 18:16, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fixing ping to @Shearonink:. Nythar (💬-🍀) 18:16, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I made clear in my report that I wasn't looking for a block, just a rollback. And ARCHIVENOTDELETE is very clear on this: "Apart from the exception described in WP:OWNTALK, discussions should be archived, not blanked." OWNTALK meaning your own user talk page (this page). Seems completely cut-and-dry to me. Apologies for rushing; I figured you weren't online to respond, but the rollback was necessary either way so I figured I was fine preempting you. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 18:44, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@QuietHere: Apologies, it took me a moment to find the link I was looking for; I need to make a list of these. WP:ARCHIVENOTDELETE is a "behavioral guideline" and not a policy that must be strictly followed (unlike WP:BLP and WP:CIVIL, see the banners at the top of those pages describing them as "English Wikipedia policy"). It is my understanding that this is how guidelines and policies work (generally), of course there needs to be a good reason for a guideline exception to exist.

In this discussion from 2018 pertaining to the InternetArchiveBot sections after they were discontinued (they used to be added to article talk pages in the past whenever the bot added archives to articles, this is not done any longer), consensus was found to be in favor of Option 2, which stated "the wording of the post is modified to give users permission to delete posts if they want to. Since talk page posts normally can't be deleted by other users, it would remove that restriction." Consensus was found to be against Option 1, which stated "a bot edits the 1 million pages deleting posts. Archived talk pages will be left alone." So an exception to ARCHIVENOTDELETE does exist for the removal of InternetArchiveBot sections by individual users from article talk pages. Nythar (💬-🍀) 19:10, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, well that clears that up then. I was not aware of this matter, and while I don't particularly see the point of mass removal of this seemingly harmless text, it doesn't seem you were in the wrong after all (though, if I'm reading correctly, there is significant concern about watchlist flooding which would likely be an issue given your targeted approach, so an adjustment in that regard would help). Thank you, and apologies again. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 21:02, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well we can both be trouted but the exception for InternetArchiveBot needs to be spelled out for dumdums like me at ARCHIVENOTDELETE to keep other editors from jumping the gun so to speak. I mean, both QuietHere and myself are fairly-experienced editors and we both did not know about this exception. Once the exception is added to the guideline, a link to it in the edit summary would be extremely helpful in the future. - Shearonink (talk) 21:34, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you both for understanding. @QuietHere: since we've cleared this up I'm going to proceed to revert the approximately 200 reverts you conducted.

My “clean up” edits aren’t just for removing the IABot messages. I insert “==Untitled==” to untitled sections where necessary (which are common in older article talk pages). Excess blank lines are also common in older talk pages, and I make sure to take care of them as well. Sometimes I remove talk page headers from articles that don’t need them per Template:Talk header#Should this be added to every talk page?. That's why I think of my edits as general clean ups.

@Shearonink: At least temporarily, how do you think I should inform unsuspecting users that my edits are legitimate and not a violation of ARCHIVENOTDELETE? I've only received like two inquiries in the past so it isn't exactly too big a deal but I'd like to avoid this kind of thing in the future. I'm thinking of creating a subpage in my user space and describing the issue there, and then linking to that in my edit summary. The edit summary could look something like "[[link to subpage]] + general clean up". Thoughts? Nythar (💬-🍀) 23:19, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That fine by me. I am hopeful that the guideline can be updated to reflect best practices re: blanking the External links bot. Shearonink (talk) 03:08, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Message sent by Baffle gab1978 (talk) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:54, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for helping fix my edit on WP:ANI. I thought I hit "Reply" so it should have worked out correctly, but it didn't. I'll play around in the sandbox to see how replys work with bullet points. Closhund/talk/ 06:02, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. I'm actually not sure if there's a way to add bullet points to replies without directly editing a page's source code but it's easier to read a discussion that way. Nythar (💬-🍀) 06:05, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]