This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Highland Clearances article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7Auto-archiving period: 90 days

This  level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Scotland: Scottish Gaelic High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Scotland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Scotland and Scotland-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ScotlandWikipedia:WikiProject ScotlandTemplate:WikiProject ScotlandScotland articles High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by Scottish Gaelic task force (assessed as High-importance). Scottish Islands Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Scottish Islands, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of islands in Scotland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Scottish IslandsWikipedia:WikiProject Scottish IslandsTemplate:WikiProject Scottish IslandsScottish Islands articles Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Clans of Scotland High‑importance This article is supported by the Clans of Scotland WikiProject, which gives a central approach to Scottish clans and related subjects on Wikipedia. Please participate by editing the article Highland Clearances, or visit the project page for more details on the projects.Clans of ScotlandWikipedia:WikiProject Clans of ScotlandTemplate:WikiProject Clans of ScotlandClans of Scotland articles High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. History Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of History on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Historyhistory articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. European history Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject European history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the history of Europe on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.European historyWikipedia:WikiProject European historyTemplate:WikiProject European historyEuropean history articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

The words in the lead ..driven by the need for landlords to increase their income – many had substantial debts.. are a frequent target for alteration. However, these words are chosen very carefully, based on (1) the main body of the article (WP:MOSLEAD) and (2) the sources that support the whole article.

The main historians of the subject all pay significant attention to the indebtedness of Highland landlords. At risk of making too long a quotation, Eric Richards says, in one of several statements on the matter:
"One of the paradoxes of Highland landownership in the late eighteenth century and beyond was the accumulation of debt in so many families despite the rise of commodity prices and real income. Debt was a great spur to changes because clearances yielded a much higher rent." Richards, Eric. The Highland Clearances (p. 127)
Richards is also the historian who coined the term "financial suicide" that is quoted in the article.

Tom Devine, who is known for his highly evidenced studies of Highland History, frequently mentions landlord debt in his The Scottish Clearances: A History of the Dispossessed, 1600-1900. To pick (largely at random) just one example, we find:
"In fact, indebtedness had become a structural problem and now plagued most of the ruling families of Gaeldom." (p. 42)
Devine says a lot more on the subject, but I cannot quote all of it here.

The article covers debt and bankruptcy in some detail. Picking on just a few words in the lead without looking at the subject in the main body of the article is unhelpful – that is where fuller explanations are given and the references are found. The references show that debt is integral to the whole story, alongside the Highland Potato Famine, overpopulation and the appeal (to the more affluent tenants and the tacksmen) of emigration. Not mentioning landlord debt would be a disservice to the reader. Implying that landlords put up rents solely out of greed (a simple wish for more money) as opposed to necessity (avoiding foreclosure on their estates) would be a similar misrepresentation that should not be here. ThoughtIdRetired _TIR 19:16, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]