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I read the Japanese translation version of Étienne SAUREL's HISTOIRE L'ÉQUITATION, 1971. Saurel noted Pluvinel was born in 1555. --Kurihaya (talk) 09:03, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I hope this known discrepancy is now adequately covered on the article. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 15:24, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that the shoulder in was not "officially" invented until de la Gueriniere did so, his book in 1732 (ish) describes it. Whilst it is clearly visible in Newcastle's work of a hundred years before this, it was neither named nor really acknowledged there.

MarkRSUK (talk) 11:21, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Any sort of source for that, Mark? The article is almost without references at the moment. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 15:24, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think either Wynmalen or Podhajsky may have discussed this issue in one of their books, unfortunately, I cannot remember which one (may also have been Muesler). Point is, there is probably an expert source that discusses the issue. There is also the whole debate over whether the movement is correctly performed on 3 or 4 tracks, but that's yet another issue. Montanabw^(talk) 02:15, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]